72e2-73d Flashcards
καὶ μήν, ἔφη ὁ Κέβης ὑπολαβών, καὶ κατ᾽ ἐκεῖνόν γε τὸν λόγον, ὦ Σώκρατες, εἰ ἀληθής ἐστιν, ὃν σὺ εἴωθας θαμὰ λέγειν, ὅτι ἡμῖν ἡ μάθησις οὐκ ἄλλο τι ἢ ἀνάμνησις τυγχάνει οὖσα, καὶ κατὰ τοῦτον ἀνάγκη που ἡμᾶς ἐν προτέρῳ τινὶ χρόνῳ μεμαθηκέναι ἃ νῦν ἀναμιμνῃσκόμεθα. τοῦτο δὲ [73a] ἀδύνατον, εἰ μὴ ἦν που ἡμῖν ἡ ψυχὴ πρὶν ἐν τῷδε τῷ ἀνθρωπίνῳ εἴδει γενέσθαι· ὥστε καὶ ταύτῃ ἀθάνατον ἡ ψυχή τι ἔοικεν εἶναι.
“Yes, certainly” said Cebes taking over, “and according to that very argument, O Socrates, if it is true, which you are accustomed often to put forward, that knowledge happens to be for us nothing else than recollection, and according to this [there is] necessity I suppose that we learned in former time the things we now recollect. But [this is] impossible, [73a] if there existed not the soul somewhere before coming into being in a human form; with the result that in that way the soul seems to be something immortal.”
ἀλλά, ὦ Κέβης, ἔφη ὁ Σιμμίας ὑπολαβών, ποῖαι τούτων αἱ ἀποδείξεις; ὑπόμνησόν με· οὐ γὰρ σφόδρα ἐν τῷ παρόντι μέμνημαι.
ἑνὶ μὲν λόγῳ, ἔφη ὁ Κέβης, καλλίστῳ, ὅτι ἐρωτώμενοι οἱ ἄνθρωποι, ἐάν τις καλῶς ἐρωτᾷ, αὐτοὶ λέγουσιν πάντα ᾗ ἔχει–καίτοι εἰ μὴ ἐτύγχανεν αὐτοῖς ἐπιστήμη ἐνοῦσα καὶ ὀρθὸς λόγος, οὐκ ἂν οἷοί τ᾽ ἦσαν τοῦτο ποιῆσαι–ἔπειτα [73b] ἐάν τις ἐπὶ τὰ διαγράμματα ἄγῃ ἢ ἄλλο τι τῶν τοιούτων, ἐνταῦθα σαφέστατα κατηγορεῖ ὅτι τοῦτο οὕτως ἔχει.
“But, O Cebes,” said Simmias, taking over, “what are the proofs of these things? Remind me; for I don’t recall them very well at the present.”
“By one very beautiful argument,” said Cebes, “that people being questioned, and if someone questions finely, they say all things in they way they are - and yet if it happened that the knowledge was not in them and correct argument, they would not be able to do this - then if someone were to lead them to [73b] the geometric figures, or some other of such things, then he would declare most distinctly that this is so.”
εἰ δὲ μὴ ταύτῃ γε, ἔφη, πείθῃ, ὦ Σιμμία, ὁ Σωκράτης, σκέψαι ἂν τῇδέ πῄ σοι σκοπουμένῳ συνδόξῃ. ἀπιστεῖς γὰρ δὴ πῶς ἡ καλουμένη μάθησις ἀνάμνησίς ἐστιν;
“But if you are not persuaded in that way, O Simmias,” said Socrates, “consider whether in this way somehow it seems good to you contemplating. For you distrust how what is called learning is recollection.
ἀπιστῶ μέν [σοι] ἔγωγε, ἦ δ᾽ ὃς ὁ Σιμμίας, οὔ, αὐτὸ δὲ τοῦτο, ἔφη, δέομαι παθεῖν περὶ οὗ ὁ λόγος, ἀναμνησθῆναι. καὶ σχεδόν γε ἐξ ὧν Κέβης ἐπεχείρησε λέγειν ἤδη μέμνημαι καὶ πείθομαι· οὐδὲν μεντἂν ἧττον ἀκούοιμι νῦν πῇ σὺ ἐπεχείρησας λέγειν.
“I on the one hand distrust you,” said Simmias, “not, but I need to experience this very thing, about which the argument [centres, namely] to ‘recollect’. And indeed almost from [the things] which Cebes tried to say, already I remembered and am persuaded; for I should like to hear nonetheless now [73c] how you tried to state [it].
[73c] τῇδ᾽ ἔγωγε, ἦ δ᾽ ὅς. ὁμολογοῦμεν γὰρ δήπου, εἴ τίς τι ἀναμνησθήσεται, δεῖν αὐτὸν τοῦτο πρότερόν ποτε ἐπίστασθαι.
πάνυ γ᾽, ἔφη.
“I [put it] this way,” he said. “for we agree, I suppose, if anyone will be reminded of something, that it is necessary that he understood that same thing once before”
“Totally”, he said.
ἆρ᾽ οὖν καὶ τόδε ὁμολογοῦμεν, ὅταν ἐπιστήμη παραγίγνηται τρόπῳ τοιούτῳ, ἀνάμνησιν εἶναι; λέγω δὲ τίνα τρόπον; τόνδε. ἐάν τίς τι ἕτερον ἢ ἰδὼν ἢ ἀκούσας ἤ τινα ἄλλην αἴσθησιν λαβὼν μὴ μόνον ἐκεῖνο γνῷ, ἀλλὰ καὶ ἕτερον ἐννοήσῃ οὗ μὴ ἡ αὐτὴ ἐπιστήμη ἀλλ᾽ ἄλλη, ἆρα οὐχὶ τοῦτο δικαίως λέγομεν ὅτι ἀνεμνήσθη, οὗ τὴν ἔννοιαν [73d] ἔλαβεν;
“Therefore do we also agree on this: whenever knowledge comes to be present in this way, it is recollection? But I mean in some way as this: if someone, having seen something else, or having heard [it], or having obtained some other sense-perception [of it], not only recognizes that thing, but also thinks of something else, of which the knowledge is not the same, but another [knowledge], surely we say this justly, [73d] that he recalls that, of which he took the notion.
