Plato's Modern Scholarship. Flashcards
“To describe what ‘Greek love’ is - the desire of men for men, its institutions and practices - allows us to explore the more contentious issue of what ‘Greek love’ means for us today”.
Goldhill, 2005 (Love, Sex and Tragedy).
Do you think it’s helpful to look at Greek attitudes to homoerotic relationships when looking at modern scholarship?
Ancient Greek love - It’s a business exchange - pederasty.
In Ancient Greece, penetration would be considered the ‘woman’s role’ - passive. This is not really the case today.
But we can appreciate their appreciation of male beauty. In Aristophanes’ argument, he says that is natural.
However, Ancient Greeks gave a superiority to male homoerotic relationships.
“The erotic [to do with Eros] world of Plato’s dialogue is in part, of course, just that of his society.”
Reeve, 2006 (Plato on Love).
How accurately do you feel that Plato replicates the world and views of his society in his dialogues?
It may be representative of Plato’s life and his own society, but he was the elite upper class! He would not be representing everybody!
“Plato is not concerned to propound a comprehensive and unified theory of love…In the Symposium, the cliche is ‘love promotes virtue’. In the Phaedrus it is ‘love is wild’.”
G.R.F Ferrari, 1992 (Platonic love).
To what extent do you agree that Plato’s views in these dialogues (Phaedrus, Symposium) are cliched?
There’s a good range of arguments and theories about love.
Does Plato manage to produce a consistent and unified theory of love in any of the dialogues you’ve read?
No. He gives us different views in the Symposium.
“In initiating the rich philosophical tradition on love, Plato has shown how much he has been influenced by Sappho’s lyric poetry; it is not difficult to see why.”
M. Tamboukou, 2016 (Sewing, Fighting and Writing).
Do you agree that Plato has been influenced by Sappho? What influences or similiarities can you see in his ideas?
Both were upper class - with upper class views on love.
They had similiarities in their works - Alcibiades’ idea of love hurting in his argument.
The idea of love being everywhere and being in everything, just like Sappho.
“Eros cannot be configured as ‘Hollywood love’. It is Eros as the pursuit of beauty and knowledge that dominates the discourses on love in the Symposium.”
M. Tamboukou (Sewing, Fighting and Writing).
What is your understanding of Plato’s definition of love? Do you agree that it is the ‘pursuit of beauty and knowledge’?
Plato’s idea of love is the ‘pursuit of beauty and knowledge’ and attainting this power - the Ladder of Love.
But Aristophanes’ idea of finding your other half - quite literally your soulmate - is very Hollywood.
To what extent do you think Plato’s definitions and ideals of love match up to modern standards and expectations?
Modern world - finding someone you can spend the rest of your life with.
Modern life is slightly less philosophical, though we may agree that our partners can make us better.
Modern ideas of love puts less focus on the forms.
“One of the most striking and famous studies of love in Western thought. It is both a powerful philosophical examination of love and a great work of literature.”
Christopher Gill, 1999
About Eryximachus’ speech, what does Gill say?
“Pompous and obsessed with his own expertise - imposes it unsuitably on the topic of love.”
- Christopher Gill.
“One of Plato’s most brilliant achievements”.
W. Hamilton, about the Symposium.
“It leaves an emotional impression without real knowledge.”
Christopher Gill, about Agathon’s argument.
“It’s shallow.”
Christopher Gill, about Agathon’s argument.
“It’s narcissistic and self-regard who aims it at appearances.”
Christopher Gill, about Agathon’s argument.
