divine attributes- eternity/ timelessness Flashcards
who argues for gods timelessness?
aquinas and boethius
what is the timeless approach?
gods exists OUTSIDE of time and space, he has no behinning and no end as these are TIME BOUND AND LIMITING.
all events to god are simultaneously present
(problems of free will do not exist)
types of necessity
simple necessity- it must by nature happen (sun rising)
conditional necessity- happens because we have chosen for it to happen- god’s observation is conditionally necessary
timeless models
moutaintop- aquinas
wheel- boethius
thus evertything happens simulataneously with no causal connection
advantages 1
supported by gods aseity- absolute dependance- he is complete si cannot be affected or acted upon
he is supremely perfect, there isnt anything that god hasnt foreseen
advantagte 2 and kennys attack to it
gods omniscience is absolute and there are no problems with free will. god does not have foreknowledge as the FUTURE DOES NOT EXIST FOR GOD as all events are in the simultaneous present
kenny: all temporal events cannot be existing at the same time as events in history are not simultaneous e.g me writing this paper and you marking it
perhaps anselms is better as it does not have god outside of the universe
other problems?
aseity- coheres with scripture as god is completely unaffected by his creation.
a timeless god is impassable and not affected by anything, you cannot form a relationship with such a god- relationships require love and change; and the god of the bible interacts with humanity.
consequence for freewill
- libertarian free will is incompatible with this timeless god, we are not authors of our actions and thus cant be held respondible for them
possible response: calvins theological determinism; god is responsible for all evil but is totally ‘other’ and we have no reason that we cannot understand him
the thesist is dying a ‘death of a thousand qualifications
Anselms 4 dimensional approach
rejects the timeless god- if he is TTWNGCBC, he must exust in all times and places
just as the third dimension holds within it the first and second, god in eternity (4th dimension) encompases within him all of time and space
advantage 1 and free will-
god learns our actions thrpough apprehending them by being simultaneous with eternity- avoids problem of evil.
but this conflicts with gods omniscience; if he learns our actions then there was a time when he did not know them and this is not all-knowing
what does swinburne argue- everlasting
creation is an event in time, god hears our prayers as we say them in time. a timeless god is impassable yet the god of classical theism is personal (coheres with scripture)
no beginning and no end but experiences time sequentially, before creation, god experienced topological time; after creation, god experienced metric time and participates in it, this does not imply he experiences time as we do.
wolsterstorf: god doesnt know the future
god reacts to our actions thus freeing him from the responsibility of not acting against free chouces. the future doesnt exist yet so god cant know it;
argue against with la-places demon; god is always going to know what will happen if he creates the conditions of the present
but this compromises gods omniscience or omnipotence
