plato's lysis Flashcards
What does Socrates criticise Hippothales for?
Flattering Lysis too much + giving him too much praise
What does Socrates do for Hippothales?
Socrates invites Hippothales to introduce him to Lysis so he can show him how to prop seduce a bf
What does Lysis tell Socrates about his parents?
His parents love him but they prevent him from doing many things he wants
What does Socratres tell Lysis he must do so his parents change their views?
He must become more knowledgeable + wise so his fellow Athenians will also value + trust him
What does Socrates tell Lysis about his parents?
Lysis is a slave to his parents + the only way out is to gain greater knowledge
What does Socrates show Hippothales?
He can seduce Lysis + other boys by diminishing his confidence until he believes he’s dependant on Socrates to gain knowledge he needs
How does Socrates end his teaching to Hippothales (quote)?
“Cutting them down to size + putting them in their place, instead of swelling them up + spoiling them”
What does Socrates suggest about love?
Creating love occurs through conversation, actions + thoughts; shared wisdom + gaining knowledge
What does Socrates imply about love?
Friendship stems from lack + ppl will only desire/love someone who can be useful to them in some way
Why might Plato be criticising this?
The friendships reviewed in the dialogue fail bc they rely on the dynamic of friends needing smth from each other
What does Socrates suggest ppl should do?
Demean + undermine confidence of those you desire/love so that they’ll depend on you
Why might Socrates’ suggestion not be the genuine idea he’s trying to get across?
Bc Hippothales, who loves Lysis, responds in horror
What does Hobbs say about Lysis?
“Lysis may be Plato criticising the view of love that stems from a need or lack of smth”
What are the 2 ruling influences within us?
‘Inborn desire for pleasures’
‘Acquired judgement which aims at the best (reason)’
What are the 4 types of good madness?
Prophecy, dynastic curses, inspiration experiences by poets + eros
What does divine mania (prophecy) do?
Is good bc it results in prophecies of the future
What do dynastic curses do?
It sometimes inspires someone in that family to find a way to be rid of the curse
What does divine inspiration sent to the poets do?
Good bc it inspires them to create good works
What is the 4th madness, eros?
When a man sees beauty of earth + is reminded of the true Form of beauty
Regarded as mad bc he’s always looking up to the region of the Forms
What are those who saw the most of the Forms capable of?
Recognising the potential or aspiration towards those truths in the earthy versions
How does Socrates describe physical effects of eros? What is this caused by?
‘Sweating + high fever’
Swelling + sudden growth of the plumage + wings caused by taking in a sight of the beautiful
How do the eromanos + erastes learn?
Eromanos (younger) learns the true forms through their erastes (older)
Erastes learns more through sharing knowledge
What will happen if the lovers are guided by philosophical elements w them?
They’ll live blessed + harmonious lives on earth + their souls become winged when they die
Who will be inferior to the philosophical lovers?
Lovers who pursue a life of honour instead of a life of wisdom
There will be times when the black horse takes over; when they die their souls will be wingless
What is friendship w a non-lover?
Inferior bc you can only gain mortal benefit; not divine immortal
You can’t gain wings + see the Forms
