Modern Scholarship. Flashcards
“As with Hector, Agamemnon’s and Achilles’ portrayal throughout the poem explores the potential conflict within heroism, between individual ambition and collective good, and the dangers of putting personal honour above all else”
Summary:
“Allan says “Hector, Agamemnon and Achilles’ portrayal explores the conflict that may occur when putting personal honour above all else”
“Hector receives high praise in vague and general way expressions, but the events of the poem give no warrant for assigning him a high place as a soldier…it is only as a man, a son, a husband, and a father that Hector really wins respect; that is, just in those qualities where he can appear noble without fighting the Greeks. Why is Hector so great as a man, so rarely great as a soldier?” - Scott.
Summary:
Scott says that Hector is a greater man than he is a soldier, and there is little in the poem to suggest that he is a great fighter.
“The Iliad is a stage set for men to die on. It begins with the promise of death, and ends with lamentation for the dead. Mortals suffers and die against a vast and largely unpitying divine background.”
Who said this?
Griffin and Hammond.
“The inevitable result of killing Patroclus, decisive for the fate of Troy and essential to the climax of the whole poem.”
Hector’s death, Kirk.
“(Menelaus’) merits are emphasised by the contrast between him and his rival Alexandros (Paris), who appears in more scenes than one as selfish and self-indulgent, cause of his people’s trouble, but careless of his responsibility”
Camps.
“Perhaps the main difference between the two heroes is that Hector is represented as quintessentially social and human, while Achilles is inhumanely isolated and daemonic in his greatness”
Think: Hector is motivated for his wife and son.
Achilles is motivated for himself.
Even his love for Patroclus is not human - saying he wishes everyone could die so that they can take Troy together.
Who says this?
Schien.
“Not only is Achilles the most intellectual of Homer’s warriors: he is the only artist among them”
Disagree: Odysseus is commonly referred to as the smartest and best orator.
Is Achilles an artist? There is nothing artistic, per se, about what he does. I picture artistic as elegant. I would argue that Achilles is (needlessly, at times) violent and egotistical.
Who says this?
Jenkyns.
Disagree: Odysseus is commonly referred to as the smartest and best orator.
Is Achilles an artist? There is nothing artistic, per se, about what he does. I picture artistic as elegant. I would argue that Achilles is (needlessly, at times) violent and egotistical.
“Perhaps the most alien feature of Homer’s people is that, in general, they seem to show no capacity for development: character is concieved as static” - Silk.
Disagree: Agamemnon having his aristeia, encouraging the warriors.
Menelaus having his aristeia.
Diomedes having his aristeia.
Patroclus and Hector’s kindness being warped to a bloodlust.
Agree: Achilles doesn’t change, he just switches his anger.
“The most important theme of the Iliad is Achilles’ growing recognition of his mortality” - Barker and Christensen.
Agree: Achilles is the one who drives the plot forwards, we cannot really attribute this to any other character.
Disagree: what about themes of humanity, war as nature, fate (or is fate the same thing?).
“It is clear that Achilles is an uncomfortable and even destructive presence in the heroic world.”
Silk.
“Heroic behaviour and its consequences in the person of Achilles are the central subject around which Homer builds the Iliad. Within it are contained issues of self-control, power, authority, and compromise (or lack of it) which resonate far beyond the military context in which they are set. Above it rises the magnificent figure of Achilles, obsessive, complex, extreme, austere, reaping the whirlwind of the decisions he freely makes”
Jones.
Summary:
The Iliad presents humane issues that we wouldn’t necessarily think fits a poem of war. And then we have Achilles who reaps the excessive, domino-effect consequences of his own choices.
“It is not Patroclus’s fighting ability that will be his undoing. Quite the reverse: It will be his desire to go too far and refusal to rein himself in that will kill him.”
Jones.
“The heroes quarrel on earth…the gods quarrel on Olympus. In essence both quarrels are about honour: Achilles feels himself dishonoured by Agamemnon, as Hera does by Zeus’ promise to Thetis. But the parallel at once becomes a contrast. The heroes’ quarral is set to bring death and destruction; the gods’, by comparision, is aimless and even frivolous.”.
Silk.
But the gods will still heavily influence the mortals and the war…I would argue that they also bring about death and destruction but the outcome does not matter to them nearly as much.
“Above all there is the individualist ethic to which the aristocratic heroes subscribe: their concern for personal honour (time) and their competitive ambition to always be the best”
Silk.
“To challenge another in a heroic society is to challenge his honour, appealing to the expectation that if one is successful, one will be rewarded with honour.”
Reyes.
“The poem delights in and celebrates battlefield prowess even as it foregrounds the miseries and losses of war. Homer presents the complexity of war, not a one-dimensional and lazy critque of it.”
Allan.
“The Iliad owes its tragic greatness to Homer’s ability to appreciate and sympathise with both aspects of heroic war. He shows how for every victory, there is defeat, how for every triumphant killing there is another human killed. Glorious deeds are done, mighty prowess displayed: at the same time fine cities are burned, fathers lose their sons, women lose their families and freedom.”
Yaplin Taplin.
About Achilles’ shield: “The scenes are those of prosperous settled societies at peace, representing the Homeric picture of the good life. But the shield is a microcosm, not a utopia, and death and destruction are also there.”
Yappers Tappers (Taplin!).
What does Allen say that links that characters of Hector, Agamemnon and Achilles?
“As with Hector, Agamemnon’s and Achilles’ portrayal throughout the poem explores the potential conflict…of putting personal honour above all else.”
What does Scott say about Hector’s skill as a soldier?
“the events of the poem give no warrant for assigning him a high place as a solider…why is Hector so great as a man, so rarely great as a soldier?”
What do Griffin and Hammon have to say about the Iliad being a ‘stage’?
“The Iliad is stage set for men to die on. It begins with the promise of death and ends with lamentation for the dead.”
What do Griffin and Hammond say about the gods’ and mortals’ relationship?
“Mortals suffer and die against a vast and largely unpitying divine background.”
What does Kirk have to say about Patroclus’ death and Hector’s involvement?
“The inevitable result of killing Patroclus, decisive for the fate of Troy and essential to the climax of the whole poem.”
What does Camps say about Menelaus and Paris?
“(Menelaus’ merits are emphasised by the contrast between him and his rival Alexandros (Paris)”.
What does Camps say about Paris?
“appears in more scenes than one as selfish and self-indulgenet, cause of his people’s trouble, but careless of his responsibility.”
What does Schien have to say about the main difference between Hector and Achilles?
“Perhaps the main difference between the two heroes is that Hector is represented as quintessentially social and human, while Achilles is inhumanely isolated and daemonic in his greatness.”
What does Jenkyns say that heavily praises Achilles and places him about the rest of the Greeks?
“Not only is Achilles the most intellectual of Homer’s warriors: he is the only artist among them.”
What does Silk have to say about characters changing?
“Perhaps the most alien feature of Homer’s people is that, in general, they seem to show no capacity for development: character is concieved as static.”
What does Barker and Christensen have to say about the importance of Achilles as a character?
“The most important theme of the Iliad is Achilles’ growing recognition of his mortality.”
What does Silk say about Achilles’ effect on the heroic world?
“It is clear that Achilles is an uncomfortable and even destructive presence in the heroic world.”
What does Jones have to say about the Iliad’s presentation of problems and its relationship to Achilles?
“Heroic behavious and its consequences in the person of Achilles are the central subject around which Homer builds the Iliad.”
What does Jones say about the character of Patroclus?
“It is not Patroclus’ fighting ability that will be his undoing. Quite the reverse: it will be his desire to go too far and refusal to rein himself in that will kill him.”
What does Silk say that both links and contrasts gods and mortals?
“The heroes quarrel on earth…the gods quarrel on Olympus…both quarrels are about honour…but the parallel at once becomes a contrast. The heroes’ quarrel is set to bring death and destruction; the gods’, byt comparision, is aimless and even frivolous.”
What does Silk say about time (honour)?
“Above all, there is the individualistic ethic to which the aristocratic heroes subsribe: their concern for personal honour (time) and their competitive ambition to always be the best.”
What Reyes say about the nature of honour?
“To challenge another in a heroic society is to challenge his honour, appealing to the expectation that if one is successful, one will be rewarded with honour.”
What does Allan praise about Homer?
“The poem delights in and celebrates battlefield prowess even as it foregrounds the miseries and losses of war. Homer presents the complexity of war, not a one-dimensional and lazy critique of it.”
What Taplin praise about the Iliad’s “tragic greatness”?
“The Iliad owes its tragic greatness to Homer’s ability to appreciate and sympathise with both aspects of heroic war…for ever victory there is defeat…for every triumphant killing there is another human killed. Glorious deeds are done, mighty prowess displayed: at the same time, fine cities are burned, fathers lose their sons, women lose their families and freedom.”
What does Taplin have to say about Achilles’ shield?
“The scenes are those of prosperous settled societies at peace, representing the Homeric picture of the good life. But the shield is a microcosm, not a utopia, and death and destruction are also there.”
