Daf Yud Gimmel . + : Flashcards
איפוך אנא לא סלקא דעתך דכתיב (עזרא ט, ד) ואלי יאספו כל חרד בדברי אלהי ישראל על מעל הגולה וגו’ וכתיב (עזרא ט, ה) ובמנחת הערב קמתי מתעניתי ואפרשה כפי אל ה’
The Gemara asks: I can reverse the order of events, so that the first half of the day is spent in prayer while the second half is focused on the concerns of the community. The Gemara answers: It should not enter your mind to say that, as it is written elsewhere: “Then were assembled to me everyone who trembled at the words of the God of Israel due to the faithlessness of them of the captivity and I sat appalled until the evening offering” (Ezra 9:4). And it is written in the next verse: “And at the meal-offering I arose from my fast, even with my garment and my mantle rent; and I fell on my knees and I spread out my hands to the Lord” (Ezra 9:5). These verses indicate that first one must deal with the issues of the community, and only afterward engage in prayer.
אמר רפרם בר פפא אמר רב חסדא כל שהוא משום אבל כגון תשעה באב ואבל אסור בין בחמין בין בצונן כל שהוא משום תענוג כגון תענית צבור בחמין אסור בצונן מותר
§ Rafram bar Pappa said that Rav Ḥisda said: Anything that is prohibited due to mourning, for example, bathing on the Ninth of Av, or prohibited for a private mourner, is prohibited both in hot water and in cold water. Anything that is prohibited due to pleasure, for example, bathing on a communal fast, is prohibited in hot water, but is permitted in cold water, provided one washes for the sake of cleanliness.
אמר רב אידי בר אבין אף אנן נמי תנינא ונועלין את המרחצאות א”ל אביי ואי בצונן אסור סוכרין את הנהרות מבעי ליה למיתני
Rav Idi bar Avin said: We, too, learn this in the mishna: And they lock the bathhouses. This phrase indicates that only bathing in hot water is prohibited. Abaye said to Rav Idi bar Avin: And if it were also prohibited to wash in cold water, should the mishna have taught: They dam the rivers? Since it is impossible to dam the rivers to stop people from bathing altogether, the statement of the mishna is insufficient proof that only bathing in hot water is prohibited. Perhaps bathing in cold water is also prohibited but there is no way to prevent it.
אמר רב שישא בריה דרב אידי אבא הכי קשיא ליה מכדי תנן אסור ברחיצה נועלין את המרחצאות למה לי אלא לאו ש”מ בחמין אסור בצונן מותר
Rav Sheisha, son of Rav Idi, said, in explanation of his father’s opinion: With regard to my father, the following poses a difficulty to his ruling: Since we already learned in the mishna that one is prohibited to engage in bathing, why do I need the tanna to state: They lock the bathhouses? Practically speaking, what does this clause add? Rather, isn’t it correct to conclude from this that bathing is prohibited in hot water but permitted in cold water?
לימא מסייע ליה כל חייבי טבילות טובלין כדרכן בין בט’ באב בין ביוה”כ במאי אילימא בחמין טבילה בחמין מי איכא שאובין נינהו
The Gemara proposes: Let us say that the following baraita supports Rav Ḥisda’s ruling that it is prohibited for a mourner to bathe himself even in cold water: All who are obligated in immersions immerse themselves in their usual manner, both on the Ninth of Av and on Yom Kippur. The Gemara clarifies this baraita: In what do they immerse themselves? If we say that they immerse themselves in hot water, is there such a concept as ritual immersion in hot water? Hot water is necessarily drawn water, as the water has been placed in vessels for heating, and drawn water is invalid for a ritual bath.
אלא לאו בצונן וחייבי טבילות אין איניש אחרינא לא אמר רב חנא בר קטינא לא נצרכה אלא לחמי טבריא
Rather, isn’t the baraita referring to cold water, and it teaches that those obligated in immersions, yes, they are permitted to use cold water, but another person, who is not obligated to immerse, no, he may not wash even in cold water. Rav Ḥana bar Ketina said: This is no proof, as the ruling of the baraita was necessary only for the hot springs of Tiberias, which are warm without having been drawn, and in which it is possible to immerse.
אי הכי אימא סיפא א”ר חנינא סגן הכהנים כדי הוא בית אלהינו לאבד עליו טבילה פעם אחת בשנה ואי אמרת בצונן מותר ירחץ בצונן אמר רב פפא באתרא דלא שכיח צונן
The Gemara objects: If so, say the latter clause of that same mishna: Rabbi Ḥanina, the deputy High Priest, said: The mourning for the House of our God, the Holy Temple, is worthy of the loss of a ritual immersion once a year. And if you say that it is permitted to immerse in cold water, why does Rabbi Ḥanina the deputy High Priest say that he loses his immersion? Let him bathe in cold water, without having to neglect his immersion or transgress the prohibitions of a fast day. Rav Pappa said: It could be argued that the baraita is referring to a place where cold water is not available, but only hot springs. In this case there is no choice but to wait until the following day to immerse.
תא שמע כשאמרו אסור במלאכה לא אמרו אלא ביום אבל בלילה מותר וכשאמרו אסור בנעילת הסנדל לא אמרו אלא בעיר אבל בדרך מותר הא כיצד יוצא לדרך נועל נכנס לעיר חולץ וכשאמרו אסור ברחיצה לא אמרו אלא כל גופו אבל פניו ידיו ורגליו מותר וכן אתה מוצא במנודה ובאבל
The Gemara proposes: Come and hear: When they said that one is prohibited in working on fast days, they said so only about working during the day, but at night it is permitted to work. And when they said that one is prohibited to engage in wearing shoes, they said so only in a city, but on the road it is permitted. How so? When one goes out on the road he wears shoes, but at the end of his journey, when he enters the town, he removes them. And when they said that one is prohibited to engage in bathing, they said this only with regard to bathing his entire body, but washing his face, his hands, and his feet is permitted. And similarly, you find that this ruling applies in the case of one who is ostracized, i.e., placed under a formal ban, and in the case of a mourner, who is also prohibited to engage in bathing, smearing, and wearing shoes.
מאי לאו אכולהו ובמאי עסקינן אילימא בחמין פניו ידיו ורגליו מי שרו והאמר רב ששת אבל אסור להושיט אצבעו בחמין אלא לאו בצונן
The Gemara explains the proof from this baraita: What, is it not the case that all these halakhot refer to all of them, including one who is ostracized and one who is in mourning? And with what form of bathing are we dealing here? If we say that the baraita is referring to bathing in hot water, are bathing his face, his hands, and his feet permitted? But didn’t Rav Sheshet say: It is prohibited for a mourner to insert even his finger into hot water for the purpose of washing. Rather, is it not correct to say that the baraita is dealing with cold water? If so, it is prohibited on a communal fast to wash one’s entire body even in cold water, which contradicts the opinion of Rafram bar Pappa, citing Rav Ḥisda, who permits washing in cold water on those days for the sake of cleanliness.
לא לעולם בחמין ודקא קשיא לך וכן אתה מוצא במנודה ובאבל אשארא קאי
The Gemara rejects this argument: No, actually the baraita is referring to bathing in hot water. And with regard to what posed a difficulty for you, the phrase: And similarly, that you find in the case of one who is ostracized and in the case of a mourner, does not refer to bathing; rather, it is referring to the rest of the prohibitions, e.g., working and wearing shoes. Consequently, it can be claimed that the baraita refers specifically to hot water, as this clause does not refer to a mourner but only to a communal fast, and bathing in cold water is permitted on communal fasts.
תא שמע דאמר ר’ אבא הכהן משום ר’ יוסי הכהן מעשה ומתו בניו של ר’ יוסי בן רבי חנינא ורחץ בצונן כל שבעה התם כשתכפוהו אבליו הוה דתניא תכפוהו אבליו זה אחר זה הכביד שערו מיקל בתער ומכבס כסותו במים
The Gemara proposes yet another proof. Come and hear a statement of a baraita, as Rabbi Abba the priest said in the name of Rabbi Yosei the priest: An incident occurred in which the sons of Rabbi Yosei, son of Rabbi Ḥanina, died, and he bathed in cold water all seven days of mourning. This indicates that a mourner is in fact permitted to bathe. The Gemara rejects this argument: There it was a case where his mourning periods came one after the other, as his sons died in quick succession, and this leniency is as it is taught in a baraita: If one’s mourning periods immediately succeeded each other and his hair grew heavy, then even though it is generally prohibited for a mourner to cut his hair, he may lighten it with a razor, and he may likewise wash his garment in water.
אמר רב חסדא בתער אבל לא במספרים במים ולא בנתר ולא בחול
With regard to this baraita, Rav Ḥisda said: One who is obligated to observe periods of mourning in quick succession may trim his hair with a razor, but not in the normal manner, with scissors. Likewise, he may wash his garment in water, but not with natron, a type of soap, nor with sand.
אמר רבא אבל מותר לרחוץ בצונן כל שבעה מידי דהוה אבשרא וחמרא מיתיבי
אין הבוגרת רשאה לנוול את עצמה בימי אבל אביה הא נערה רשאה
Rava said: A mourner is permitted to bathe in cold water all seven days of mourning, despite the fact that he derives a certain degree of enjoyment from the cold bath, just as it is permitted for him to eat meat and wine. The Gemara raises an objection: A grown woman, i.e., a girl over twelve and a half, who is old enough to be married, is not permitted to render herself unattractive during the days of mourning for her father, as this would adversely affect her chances of marriage. The Gemara infers that this halakha applies only to a grown woman, whereas a young woman, a girl between the ages of twelve and twelve and a half, who is not yet old enough to be married, is permitted to render herself unattractive.
מאי לאו ברחיצה ובמאי אילימא בחמין אין הבוגרת רשאה והאמר רב חסדא אבל אסור להושיט אצבעו בחמין אלא לאו בצונן לא אכיחול ופירכוס
The Gemara analyzes this halakha: What, is it not referring to the prohibition against bathing? And in what kind of water may a grown woman bathe? If we say that the baraita is referring to hot water, is a grown woman not permitted to render herself unattractive by refraining from washing in hot water? But didn’t Rav Ḥisda say: It is prohibited for a mourner to insert even his finger into hot water for the purpose of washing. Rather, is it not the case that it is permitted for a grown woman to bathe in cold water, from which it may be inferred that it is not permitted for a young woman to bathe even in cold water. The Gemara answers: No, the baraita is not speaking of bathing at all. Rather it is referring to painting the eyes and dyeing [pirkus] one’s hair, which it is permitted for a grown woman to do during mourning.
לימא מסייע ליה דא”ר אבא הכהן משום רבי יוסי הכהן מעשה ומתו בניו של ר’ יוסי בר חנינא ורחץ בצונן כל שבעה
The Gemara proposes: Let say that the aforementioned baraita supports Rava’s ruling. As Rabbi Abba the priest said in the name of Rabbi Yosei the priest: An incident occurred in which the sons of Rabbi Yosei, son of Rabbi Ḥanina, died, and he bathed in cold water all seven days of mourning. This ruling apparently indicates that a mourner is permitted to bathe in cold water.
